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In 'Money Shot,' Poet Armantrout Reacts to Financial Crisis in Verse Watch Video \| Listen to the Audio RAY SUAREZ: Finally tonight, another in our occasional series on poets and poetry. Rae Armantrout won the 2010 Pulitzer Prize in poetry for the collection "Versed." Her latest book, "Money Shot," was published last year and deals in part with the financial crisis. RAE ARMANTROUT, "Money Shot": "Complex systems can arise from simple rules." My name is Rae Armantrout. I live in San Diego. I grew up in San Diego, actually. I teach at U.C. San Diego. But, mainly, I am a poet. My poetry always includes whatever is around me. If I watch something on television, if I hear news in the car, if I hear certain phrases being bandied about, or if I see things happening to my friends -- like a couple of my friends have lost their homes in this financial debacle -- of course that is going to get into my work. And what I like to do really is to write about the intersection of the public and the private, or what is left of the private, in our lives, and to kind of bring those aspects of reality together. "Money Talks." "Money is talking to itself again in this season's bondage and safari look. It's closeout camouflage. Hit the refresh button and this is what you get, money pretending that its hands are tied. On a billboard by the 880, money admonishes, shut up and play." In the poem "Bubble Wrap," which I -- is the one I wrote on the day that the stock market lost so much of its value, I was coming home from the store, and I actually saw this immigrant who was selling -- or trying to sell -- no one was actually approaching him -- these scorpions made of what looked like twisted electrical wire. And I had thought, well, this is going to be the new economy now. It seems like, if value can suddenly disappear that way, then what kind of value was it? It's a sort of magic value that they can create out of nothing, and then it can disappear. So, I was listening to the language that they used to talk about the crisis in terms like credit default swaps, and leveraged buyout. And although the whole thing was horrifying, as a poet and as someone who is interested in language, I couldn't help but be fascinated by those terms. "Now, an engine's single indrawn breath, the black hole at the heart of it is taking it all back. An immigrant sells scorpions of twisted electrical wire in front of the Rite Aid." There's a lot of the San Diego landscape in my poems. There's a lot of -- there are a lot of palm trees and junipers, and just the flora of San Diego comes in constantly. One of the poems, "Long Green," would possibly, in some sense, be a pastoral poem. It's about plants. There are various kinds of plants are mentioned. But the language of the financial crisis kind of creeps in and becomes integrated with the language about nature. "Long Green." "Such naked spines and vertebrae, convincing parallels, upright, separated by a few inches of clay. Such earnest, green gentlemen, such stalwarts jouncing in the intermittent wind. Idea laundering exists primarily to produce a state of equilibrium. All night, the sea coughs up green strands, cold boluses and swallows them back in." RAY SUAREZ: You can hear Rae Armantrout read more of her poems and watch an extended conversation with the poet on our website.
Brooks, Dionne on Romney's Vulnerability, Gingrich's Swipes at Media, SOTU Watch Video \| Listen to the Audio JEFFREY BROWN: And that brings us to the analysis of Brooks and Dionne, New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne, who joins us from Los Angeles. Mark Shields is away tonight. So, David, yet another turn in Florida, some strong ads, a couple of strong debates, and Romney back up? DAVID BROOKS: He's up. Now he's Mr. Inevitable again. (LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: Every other week . . . JEFFREY BROWN: Just as you told us weeks ago, right? DAVID BROOKS: Yes. You just have got to ignore the little rough patches he had. He had a terrible week. And what was interesting was -- a professional politician once told me, don't judge a candidate by how good they are. Judge them by how much they improve. And so Romney shows the capacity to grow. And so he had this period where he said, oh, I can tell the country that I will release my taxes in April. That will work. And everybody who had ever been through this said, no, that will never work. And so finally he admitted, oh, yes, that was a mistake. And so he was able to learn. And the second thing he was able to learn was that he might lose. I don't think it ever occurred to him that he might lose. But after the rough week in South Carolina . . . JEFFREY BROWN: Even though it happened once before, right? DAVID BROOKS: Yes. Right. You would think he would be used to it. And he's lost a lot in his career. But he thought, I could lose. And not only that, I could lose to that guy, Newt Gingrich, which he definitely didn't want to do. And so he toughened it up. He decided, I have to just cut him up, and I'm going to relentlessly cut him up. And he cut him up relentlessly during the debate. And it worked, and even to the point, in the middle of the debate, I was thinking, ease up. You've killed him. Ease up. And he kept at it. And so that just shows a sign of a candidate who can evolve. JEFFREY BROWN: And, E.J., of course, he got a lot more help this week from the establishment. E.J. DIONNE, The Washington Post: Right. Well, the Republicans who know Newt really seem to not want him to get the nomination. Let's put it politely. I think Lawrence O'Donnell told a great story this week. And these are the kind of Newt stories that are floating around. He apparently asked Bob Dole, "Why do so many people take an instant dislike to me?" And Newt -- and Bob Dole sort of grunted and said, "It saves time." And it's stories like that, that are floating around about Gingrich among established Republicans that are hurting him. But I think it's something else. I think that Newt has really done very well in this campaign because he has not come under that much attack. He has been the attacker. And he has been able to bring the attack mostly to journalists. And I think one of the problems he's had is that he hasn't had as many openings to attack journalists. And the other is that he had never seen a Mitt Romney like the Mitt Romney he has seen this week. Now, the problem is, we are all saying once again, ah, it's Romney's to lose. David is writing a book about humility. (LAUGHTER) E.J. DIONNE: And I think punditry will be an excellent subject, because if anybody should be humble these days, it's political pundits on this Republican race. JEFFREY BROWN: Chapter one, David, is campaign 2012. (LAUGHTER) DAVID BROOKS: I wouldn't know it personally, but yes. No, no -- and we go through these cycles, and some of it is just who is in the electorate. In the South Carolina electorate, there are a lot of evangelical conservatives, in the Florida electorate, not so many. And so it's a natural ground. But the striking thing about the debate last night was that Newt Gingrich didn't really strike back. Why was he so passive? And one cynical person said, well, a second that Newt Gingrich is attacking Mitt Romney is a second he's not talking about himself, and so that's not a good second for Newt Gingrich. He likes to talk about himself a lot. But it was weird how he was hit and he didn't respond. Within the Romney camp, the argument is, when you hit a bully, he is sort of disoriented. That is their spin. I don't know if that is fair. But he was relatively passive. JEFFREY BROWN: But, E.J., what about the attempt to . . . I'm sorry. I was going to ask you, what about the attempt to push against Romney over the -- to portray him as the rich guy, using the tax shelters? How did he fight back at that? E.J. DIONNE: Well, you know, I think that he has been tougher on the stump than he seems to have been in these last two debates. And I don't know why he didn't continue to hit Romney on his wealth, on the Cayman Islands, on Swiss bank accounts which are now closed, because those did raise some real questions on the electability front. And, you know, when they were asked at the end of the debate about who is more electable, I was really surprised that Gingrich didn't take it right to Romney and say, look how much trouble you had on the question of releasing your taxes. Look at all these questions about your investments. Instead, he did kind of campaign boilerplate. It was very, very surprising and in some sense un-Newt like. Whether you like him or not, he's a skilled politician and he can be a skilled debater. JEFFREY BROWN: So . . . DAVID BROOKS: The vulnerability, as Rick Santorum showed -- and Santorum had an outstanding debate -- is on health care. And I thought Romney -- when Santorum said, you've got Obamacare, you are the progenitor of it, I thought Romney's defense was pretty lame. It was actually a good defense of Obamacare. JEFFREY BROWN: And what about -- what of Santorum? E.J. DIONNE: Exactly right. JEFFREY BROWN: What of Santorum? E.J. DIONNE: Exactly right. And I think David's on to something, that it will be complicated for Romney in the end if he gets the nomination to really go after the president on the health plan. JEFFREY BROWN: David, Santorum -- you brought up Santorum. He had a stronger night last night. DAVID BROOKS: Very strong. And it's always been a bit of a mystery to me. If I'm a Tea Party Republican, I don't like Mitt Romney. He's a Massachusetts moderate. I just don't trust him. So why am I thinking that Newt Gingrich is my guy? Why aren't I thinking that Rick Santorum is my guy? Santorum has a lot less baggage -- in many ways, a much more humane story. I thought they had this silly question -- though I like the silly questions -- why would your wife be a great first lady? Santorum gave a great answer to that. He's just a more humane guy. And he was -- had -- a very skilled debater, really took it to Mitt Romney in a way that Romney really wasn't ready for or at least didn't have good answers to. And I don't know. Santorum has not had the bumps, aside from the obvious Iowa thing, that his debate performances merit. JEFFREY BROWN: E.J., Rick Santorum? E.J. DIONNE: Well, first of all, Santorum should sue the Iowa Republican Party, since he won that and no one gave him credit for it for about two weeks. But, secondly, I think he needed a little bit more money, because, usually, when you have two candidates going at each other, the way Gingrich and Romney are, you have an opening for a third candidate. But I think the problem for the Tea Party is the side of Santorum that I probably like best, which is the side of him that believes in some government, believes in some government action, and I think that some of the Tea Party folks know that he is not as anti-government as they are. JEFFREY BROWN: All right, now, switch to President Obama, because this week, he, of course, got his national audience, right, in the State of the Union. David, starting with you, a few days later, what strikes you? DAVID BROOKS: I think less of it the more I went on. JEFFREY BROWN: Less of it a few days later. DAVID BROOKS: And I remember the night. I was sitting here and I said it was a very well-delivered speech, very good speech, will appeal to independents. JEFFREY BROWN: You do. And we have the tape. DAVID BROOKS: And I still agree with that. I mean it was the sort of policies that will appeal to independents. The question is, is it right for the moment? I think this is an election about national decline, about averting national decline. It's an election in the wake of a huge debt wall that is about to land on us, wage stagnation, inequality, gigantic issues. And this is not Bill Clinton running for a second term amid peace and prosperity. I think you need an agenda that's equal to the moment. And he came in -- God knows Obama came in with that kind of agenda, huge agenda. Now, this was a bunch of little tax credits for little things, little things that were good ideas that he has marginal control over. Today, he was out in Michigan campaigning on behalf of lowering college tuitions. Does the president of the United States really have control over how much the University of Michigan charges for tuition? No. JEFFREY BROWN: But realistic -- haven't Republicans -- isn't the feeling that Republicans have shown that they aren't going to go along with big things, so he puts out . . . DAVID BROOKS: Well, so my argument would be, what you do is you have to establish a governing majority to overwhelm the Republicans who will never work with you. And that has to be a center-left majority that starts with a big, like, Simpson-Bowles budget deal. And you announce it. You don't just talk about it in backrooms, a big tax reform, so people trust Washington. That's how do you it. JEFFREY BROWN: E.J., how do you feel about the State of the Union a few days later? E.J. DIONNE: I agree with David that the underlying issue in American politics is, how do we avoid decline? I disagree with him on the speech. First of all, I don't think Simpson-Bowles is center-left at all. And it's one of the reasons Obama pulled back from it. But I actually think that speech was effective, because he did two things at the same time. On the one hand, he is making a big argument to the country about the cost of inequality, the fact that we have lost the kind of upward mobility we used to have. There was this wonderful black-and-white movie feel to it. I thought of "It's a Wonderful Life" when he went back to his Kansas grandparents and talked about how we felt as a country after World War II, when we took off like gangbusters and the middle class took off like gangbusters. And he's arguing government needs to do some things in order to allow people to have decent upward mobility again and to reduce inequality. And then he proposed some very specific commonsensical things that he hopes he might get through even under these circumstances. I think there is a big vision there and some specific proposals, a lot of which I think might even be up David's alley in terms of education, in terms of community colleges and in terms of tax fairness. He should have had Mitt Romney up in the presidential box, because Romney was exhibit A . . . (LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROWN: Well, there is an interesting tie between Republicans and Democrats when you speak about this inequality and fairness issue. But is that not, David, a kind of overarching theme, as E.J. says? DAVID BROOKS: Yeah, but you have got to have some policies to actually address it. JEFFREY BROWN: Yeah. DAVID BROOKS: And I agree. Community colleges, they should be strengthened, they should be tied into labor markets. But is that going to really change it? I'm sort of dubious. And then the second thing is, E.J. talked about the black-and-white movie. Well, he's building a bridge to the 20th century. He talked about manufacturing -- 90 percent of American workers work in the service sector. We are a service economy. I'm all for boosting the manufacturing sector, but the idea that's going to get us out of our problems, that's not the economy we live with today. And so I think that was sort of a misdirection. And so I would liked to have seen something obviously much more ambitious for his point of view and for the country's point of view. JEFFREY BROWN: E.J., pick up a little bit more on the fairness and inequality issue. Does it resonate with all voters, some voters? Who is the president appealing to here? E.J. DIONNE: I think it resonates on the left and in the center. And that's the key. The one thing -- one thing I do agree with David on is, he does need to build a center-left majority. And, obviously, people on the progressive side have talked about rising inequality for a long time. And Occupy Wall Street, I think, deserves some real credit for really forcing that issue to the forefront. But a lot of middle-class, middle-income, middle-of-the-road voters also sense that the opportunities that they once enjoyed aren't there for them, aren't there for their kids. So I think this argument about inequality -- and there's -- we can talk about dueling polls, but I think the polling is pretty clear that a lot of voters are concerned about this. They're not concerned about it because they don't want the rich to do well. They're concerned about it because they think opportunity should be more broadly shared in the society than it is. JEFFREY BROWN: And just briefly, David, because we talked about this with the Occupy movement, but you think that there are some limits to that . . . DAVID BROOKS: Right. I think it's the wrong way to phrase it. It's not about inequality. It's about opportunity. Are you giving people a lift up? And the president would say, that's not intentioned -- that's not intentioned with each other. But if all you're talking about is taxing the rich -- listen, I'm for raising the taxes on the rich -- that's not helping people move up. That's not about growth and expanding the pie. It's about giving people who earn success the ability to work hard and get ahead. Inequality, sociology is not the way to talk about it. Morality is the way to talk about it. JEFFREY BROWN: And, E.J., your last word. You say Obama should take it out there, right? E.J. DIONNE: It's why he's talking about manufacturing, because there is an opening to bring some manufacturing back. It's why he's talking about training. I think countries that are less unequal than we are actually have more upward mobility. So I think our disagreement is, I think inequality and the mobility question are linked, and David doesn't. And we'll see who is right in November and 10 years from now. JEFFREY BROWN: All right, E.J. Dionne, David Brooks, thanks so much. E.J. DIONNE: Thank you.
In Syria, Reports of 'Daily Double-Digit Death Tolls' Watch Video \| Listen to the Audio MARGARET WARNER: For more on the spiraling situation in Syria, we go to Rania Abouzeid in Beirut. She's a Middle East correspondent for Time and was last in Syria in August reporting under cover. Rania, thank you for joining us. The head of the Arab League mission in Syria said today that, in fact, there has been a very high escalation of violence in the last few days. Is that what you're hearing from your sources? RANIA ABOUZEID, Time magazine: Well, certainly. You know, the figures that are coming out are quite ghastly. We're hearing 50, 60, 77, as many as perhaps 96 people killed today. You know, yesterday was also a figure in the high double digits. This has become the pattern over several months, these daily double-digit death tolls. However, in the past week or so, we have seen what appears to be a dramatic escalation in that. We've also seen the military go back into this -- go back into Hama. They hadn't staged a major offensive in that city since I was last there in August, early September. So, you know, the Assad security forces are certainly seeming to want to crush this rebellion that has now entered its 10th month. The U.N. has stopped counting. They're saying that their last count was over 5,000 people. They've stopped counting the dead. That's just an indication of the difficulty of operating inside Syria and also the chaotic scene inside the country. MARGARET WARNER: Now, we have seen especially home-shot videos of security forces attacking protesters and vice versa, but what about civilians? Are they also getting pulled into it? And is it sectarian in nature? RANIA ABOUZEID: Well, you know, when the Free Syrian Army was first formed -- that's the band of defectors -- they were -- they had quite clear instruction. You know, they were saying that they only wanted other defectors to join their ranks. However, recently, we have seen from these amateur videos that are pouring out of Syria, we have seen that civilians have joined the ranks of these -- of the Free Syrian Army, of these defectors. As for whether or not it is becoming more sectarian, certainly, the sectarian undertones are there. When I was in Syria -- I think entered three or four times clandestinely -- I heard many cries of you know "those Alawite dogs" in Sunni strongholds. It is taking on an increasingly sectarian tone. Alawites, of course, are the coreligionists of President Bashar al-Assad. And although they comprise about 12 percent of Syria's population, they are disproportionately represented in the upper echelons of the political, military and business establishment. And that breeds some resentment, as does the fact that we haven't really seen many breakaways from the Alawite community. You know, for the most part, the military, for example, has the remained remarkably intact, and the defections that we are seeing are largely low-level Sunni conscripts who are breaking away from their units. MARGARET WARNER: In the ITN piece we just ran, there was a defector who was quoted as saying he had seen Iranian cash and snipers in Syria. There have been a lot of rumors about Iranian involvement and support, but has there been any evidence of that? RANIA ABOUZEID: Well, you see, that's the thing. Given the thousands of amateur videos which have emerged -- and they really have documented this rebellion in gruesome, bloody detail -- and yet there hasn't been much in the way of video evidence indicating that there are Iranians, that these Iranians are on the ground in Syria. I heard many, many stories from refugees who fled towns like Jisr Al-Shugur and other areas who said that there were Iranians. They said that they had captured -- some of them said they had captured people who did not speak Arabic. They weren't sure if it was Farsi, but they certainly didn't speak Arabic. Now, yesterday, Al-Jazeera aired footage, also amateur footage, which the Free Syrian Army defectors had presented it with, and it showed five Iranians. They had I.D.s. There were two that presented laminated I.D. cards and there were three passports. They said that they were members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and that they had been nabbed by these defectors in Homs. Now, of course, you know, a confession under duress is hardly evidence. However, the Syrian government believes that these Iranians are Iranians -- Iranian engineers who were kidnapped by -- quote, unquote -- "terrorists" in late December. So we have two very different versions of the story. And the truth is -- certainly lies somewhere in between. MARGARET WARNER: Rania Abouzeid, thank you so much for joining us. And stay safe. RANIA ABOUZEID: Thank you.